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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Anneke Tersis
The Brothers Inc Industrial
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
8
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Posted - 2014.07.30 07:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Thanks for the hard work!!! I can't wait for the new version... But I'll wait nonetheless :) |
Anneke Tersis
The Brothers Inc Industrial
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
8
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 01:18:56 -
[2] - Quote
Hi,
First, thanks a lot for the hard work, it's great a version 3 is on its way. It's a great tool and the new version is already very usable and efficient.
Unless I'm mistaken, it seems that the calculation of the invention cost does not take into account the success chance. This can have a significant influence for small objects. I suggest to divide the cost of the invention by the success probability (thus increasing it), unless you purposefully want it the actual way.
On a purely cosmetic note, it would be nice to be able to strall down with the arrow keys in the BP menu - it's already possible in the decryptors menu for example. |
Anneke Tersis
The Brothers Inc Industrial
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
8
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 20:54:47 -
[3] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Anneke Tersis wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, it seems that the calculation of the invention cost does not take into account the success chance. Version 2 did, so if version 3 doesn't, that's a bug. Quick way to check, go to the View -> Character Skills and change one of the affecting skills. See if the invention cost changes as a result.
I tried and I saw no difference. But please cross-check me, I may have made things incorrectly. |
Anneke Tersis
The Brothers Inc Industrial
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
8
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 08:01:55 -
[4] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Anneke Tersis wrote:Elena Thiesant wrote:Anneke Tersis wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, it seems that the calculation of the invention cost does not take into account the success chance. Version 2 did, so if version 3 doesn't, that's a bug. Quick way to check, go to the View -> Character Skills and change one of the affecting skills. See if the invention cost changes as a result. I tried and I saw no difference. But please cross-check me, I may have made things incorrectly. If you give me an example I can explain it perhaps. I don't see an issue right now.
Let's say I'm working on a Small Capacitor Battery II.
To create a BPC II, I need a Datacore - High Energy Physics (about 90000 ISK) and a Datacore - Quantum Physics (225000). Let's say I use no decryptor : raw Invention cost is about 310000, or 31000 per run (since I get 10 runs on the BPC in this case). This is what IPH gives me. But this is wrong ! This is what it costs me to make a try, but I'm not sure the Invention job will be a success. In my opinion, the relevant info is the average cost to successfully get the BPC. In this case it'd be 310000 / 0.40 = 775000 ISK (0.40 is my probability to be successful in the invention job)
(I've rounded all numbers, obviously :) )
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Anneke Tersis
The brothers inc
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
8
|
Posted - 2014.11.25 00:51:06 -
[5] - Quote
Zifrian you're awesome !
Quick find for a tiny bug: in the Manufacturing List, when using the BP filter for "small", all sizes of Rocket Fuel Cache Partition rigs (both tech 1 and 2) still appear. When filtering "medium", "large" or "capital", only the correct size of RFCP rigs appear. |
Anneke Tersis
The brothers inc
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
9
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 10:59:33 -
[6] - Quote
Hi,
Just updated to the latest version. It seems the invention chance does (still) not reflect on the cost of an invented BPO. To check this, I just upped all my skills to 5 : my invention chances increased but invention costs remained unchanged. I think the actual invention costs should be calculated as C/(N.P) where C is the material cost to perform the invention, N the number of runs on the T2 BP, and P the success probability. At the moment the calculation is just C/N.
Thanks Zifrian for your great job ! |
Anneke Tersis
The brothers inc
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
9
|
Posted - 2014.12.16 18:47:24 -
[7] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Anneke Tersis wrote:Hi,
Just updated to the latest version. It seems the invention chance does (still) not reflect on the cost of an invented BPO. To check this, I just upped all my skills to 5 : my invention chances increased but invention costs remained unchanged. I think the actual invention costs should be calculated as C/(N.P) where C is the material cost to perform the invention, N the number of runs on the T2 BP, and P the success probability. At the moment the calculation is just C/N.
Thanks Zifrian for your great job ! This is possible if you need to do more than one invention batch to get a success. If your skills don't reduce the number of batches then the costs won't change. If your success chance is say 45% and you increase it to 48%, then you still need two batches to get a successful bpc. Send me an example though and I'll take a look. There is an issue with t2 and numbps though where you might see some incorrect numbers but I'm working on that.
We are not talking about the same information. Presently, the calculation gives the cost for a successful try. The information I'm looking for before starting a production is the average cost of T2 BP, not the cost "if I'm lucky every time". Hence the suggested division by P.
In other words, the chances of success have no predictive power at a given time, but only in the long term. With a 45% chance, I can get 0, 1 or 2 successful inventions. The only meaningful way to apprehend things is to consider what will happen on a large number of trys, and present an averaged value. |
Anneke Tersis
The brothers inc
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
9
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 00:45:39 -
[8] - Quote
The invention cost is still independent of the invention chance.
Did I (and the people who supported the idea in the previous pages) fail to convince you this is the most logical way to handle the invention cost ? Or was it just forgotten along the way ? |
Anneke Tersis
The brothers inc
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
9
|
Posted - 2015.01.05 13:55:54 -
[9] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Anneke Tersis wrote:The invention cost is still independent of the invention chance.
Did I (and the people who supported the idea in the previous pages) fail to convince you this is the most logical way to handle the invention cost ? Or was it just forgotten along the way ? Except it isn't. Did you read my response? Please give an example of what you see is wrong that I can reproduce instead of just telling me I'm wrong. We all agree I just don't see the problem. Note: I just put up an update that fixed a display issue on the "Invention Costs" label that was showing the total cost and not the amount per run. The IPH values were always using this per run value.
I'm glad to say that rechecking right now, I'm getting a correct behavior of the calculation. Don't know if it's related to the last update, maybe I f... up yesterday (in that case, my apologies). Previously, as mentionned ealier in the thread, I had used the skills overide to check that the probability had no effet on the cost. Anyway, all good now, thanks ! |
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